Legislature(1997 - 1998)
04/30/1998 03:10 PM House HES
| Audio | Topic |
|---|
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL
SERVICES STANDING COMMITTEE
April 30, 1998
3:10 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Con Bunde, Chairman
Representative Joe Green, Vice Chairman
Representative Brian Porter
Representative Fred Dyson
Representative J. Allen Kemplen
Representative Tom Brice
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Al Vezey
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE BILL NO. 434
"An Act requiring drug testing for applicants for and recipients of
assistance under the Alaska temporary assistance program; and
providing for an effective date."
- PASSED CSHB 434(HES) FROM COMMITTEE
HOUSE BILL NO. 323
"An Act relating to the calculation of credited service in the
public employees' retirement system for noncertificated employees
of school districts, regional educational attendance areas, and
state boarding schools; and providing for an effective date."
- PASSED CSHB 323(HES) FROM COMMITTEE
* HOUSE BILL NO. 332
"An Act relating to adoptive placements by the Department of Health
and Social Services."
- PASSED HB 332 FROM COMMITTEE
SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 340
"An Act relating to child abuse and neglect, child-in-need-of-aid
proceedings, delinquency hearings, and review of cases involving
certain children who are in the custody of the state; relating to
the crime of endangering the welfare of a minor; relating to
disclosure of information about children and their families;
amending Rules 3, 7, 10, 15, 17 - 19, and 22, Alaska Child in Need
of Aid Rules; amending Rules 3, 7, 10, 12, 21, 23, and 25, Alaska
Delinquency Rules; and providing for an effective date."
- PASSED CSSSHB340(HES) FROM COMMITTEE
(* First public hearing)
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 434
SHORT TITLE: DRUG TESTING OF WELFARE RECIPIENTS
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVES(S) ROKEBERG
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
2/18/98 2354 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
2/18/98 2354 (H) HES, JUDICIARY
4/23/98 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106
4/23/98 (H) MINUTE(HES)
4/28/98 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106
BILL: HB 323
SHORT TITLE: PERS CREDIT FOR NONCERTIFICATED EMPLOYEES
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVES(S) BRICE, Kubina
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
1/15/98 2054 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
1/15/98 2054 (H) LABOR & COMMERCE, HES
2/11/98 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17
2/11/98 (H) MINUTE(L&C)
4/24/98 (H) L&C AT 9:15 AM CAPITOL 17
4/24/98 (H) MINUTE(L&C)
4/24/98 3237 (H) L&C RPT CS(L&C) NT 6DP
4/24/98 3238 (H) DP: COWDERY, BRICE, RYAN, KUBINA,
4/24/98 3238 (H) HUDSON, ROKEBERG
4/24/98 3238 (H) FISCAL NOTE (ADM)
4/30/98 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106
BILL: HB 332
SHORT TITLE: ADOPTION PREFERENCE FOR RELATIVES
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVES(S) JAMES
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
1/20/98 2089 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
1/20/98 2089 (H) HES
4/30/98 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106
BILL: HB 340
SHORT TITLE: TESTIMONY AT CINA HEARINGS; CHILD ABUSE
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVES(S) HODGINS, Dyson
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
1/21/98 2100 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
1/21/98 2100 (H) HES, JUDICIARY
3/12/98 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106
3/12/98 (H) MINUTE(HES)
4/03/98 2869 (H) SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE
INTRODUCED-REFERRALS
4/03/98 2869 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
4/03/98 2869 (H) HES, JUDICIARY
4/21/98 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106
4/21/98 (H) MINUTE(HES)
4/23/98 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106
4/23/98 (H) MINUTE(HES)
4/30/98 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106
WITNESS REGISTER
GUY BELL, Director
Division of Retirement and Benefits
Department of Administration
P.O. Box 110203
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0203
Telephone: (907) 465-4471
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on proposed committee substitute
for HB 323.
BILL CHURCH, Retirement Supervisor
Division of Retirement and Benefits
Department of Administration
P.O. Box 110203
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0203
Telephone: (907) 465-4460
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on proposed committee substitute
for HB 323.
JOHN CYR, President
NEA-Alaska
114 Second Street
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 586-3090
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on proposed committee substitute
for HB 323.
MARY BISE, President
Totem Association of Educational Support Personnel
249 Fall Leaf Circle
Anchorage, Alaska 99504
Telephone: (907) 333-6249
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on CSHB 323(HES).
BARBARA TUCK HUFFNESS, Director
Governmental and Legislative Affairs
Teamsters Local 959
520 East 34th Avenue
Anchorage, Alaska 99503
Telephone: (907) 565-8236
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on CSHB 323(HES).
PATRICK LOUNSBURY, Legislative Secretary
to Representative Jeannette James
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 102
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 465-3843
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented HB 332 on behalf of Representative
James.
KATHY TIBBLES, Administrator
Social Services Program
Division of Family and Youth Services
Department of Health and Social Services
P.O. Box 110630
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0630
Telephone: (907) 465-3023
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 332.
GARY CADD, Researcher
for Representative Mark Hodgins
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 110
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182
Telephone: (907) 465-3779
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented sponsor statement for SSHB 340.
DIANA BUFFINGTON, President
Childrens' Rights Council of Alaska
317 Maple
Kodiak, Alaska 99615
Telephone: (907) 486-2290
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SSHB 340.
JEANINE REEP, Assistant Attorney General
Human Services Section
Civil Division
Department of Law
P.O. Box 110300
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0300
Telephone: (907) 465-3600
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on SSHB 340.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 98-51, SIDE A
Number 0001
CHAIRMAN CON BUNDE called the House Health, Education and Social
Services Standing Committee meeting to order at 3:10 p.m. Members
present at the call to order were Representatives Bunde, Porter,
Dyson, Kemplen and Brice. Representative Green arrived at 3:12
p.m. Representative Vezey was absent.
HB 434 - DRUG TESTING OF WELFARE RECIPIENTS
Number 0039
CHAIRMAN BUNDE announced the first bill to come before the
committee was HB 434, "An Act requiring drug testing for applicants
for and recipients of assistance under the Alaska temporary
assistance program; and providing for an effective date."
Number 0050
REPRESENTATIVE FRED DYSON made a motion to rescind the committee's
action on Amendment 3.
CHAIRMAN BUNDE asked if there was objection. He explained the
passage of Amendment 3 had added a large fiscal note to the bill.
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON commented he believes the intent of the
amendment is admirable, but the near compulsory language adds a
fiscal note that he is not comfortable with at this time.
CHAIRMAN BUNDE asked if there was any objection to rescinding
Amendment 3. Hearing none, Amendment 3 was rescinded.
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON made a motion to pass CSHB 434(HES) with
individual recommendations and the pending fiscal notes.
CHAIRMAN BUNDE asked if there was objection. Hearing none CSHB
434(HES) passed out of the House Health, Education and Social
Services Standing Committee.
HB 323 - PERS CREDIT FOR NONCERTIFICATED EMPLOYEES
Number 0186
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE noted the next bill before the committee was
HB 323, "An Act relating to the calculation of credited service in
the public employees' retirement system for noncertificated
employees of school districts, regional educational attendance
areas, and state boarding schools; and providing for an effective
date."
Number 0195
REPRESENTATIVE TOM BRICE made a motion to adopt proposed committee
substitute 0-LS1350\F, Cramer, 4/29/98, as the working draft.
Number 0218
CHAIRMAN BUNDE objected for discussion purposes.
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE explained, "What we we're doing with the
committee substitute is allowing individuals who are
noncertificated employees the ability to opt into the program which
would frankly, give them an increase in their benefits. For that
increase, they get a full year of benefits for the length of work
they might participate in. Some employees work nine months and
only get nine months credit towards retirement. The problem with
that is they end up working 40 years for a 30 year retirement.
This would just give them the ability to increase their
contribution rate to cover the months that they're not working so
for a 30-year retirement, they get 30-year ...."
CHAIRMAN BUNDE asked if it would be comparable to the retirement
program for certificated employees.
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said it would be very close to what a
certificated employee would have, with possibly the difference
being that certificated employees have the option to have their
retirement benefits spread over a 12-month period versus a 9-month
period. This legislation does not deal with that issue.
Number 0344
CHAIRMAN BUNDE asked what the minimum would be that an individual
would have to work for a year of retirement benefit.
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE deferred that question to the representative
from the Division of Retirement and Benefits.
Number 0398
GUY BELL, Director, Division of Retirement and Benefits, Department
of Administration, introduced Bill Church from the division.
Number 0414
BILL CHURCH, Retirement Supervisor, Division of Retirement and
Benefits, Department of Administration, responded the minimum would
be 172 days for a full year of service.
CHAIRMAN BUNDE understood there would no negative actuarial impact
on the retirement system if HB 323 is passed.
MR. CHURCH said that was correct.
CHAIRMAN BUNDE asked if the new contribution rate be mandatory or
optional if HB 323 were to pass?
Number 0450
MR. CHURCH replied it is an option under 0-LS1350\F. He added that
individuals currently employed would have 180 days to opt up to the
alternate calculation of service and obviously the higher rate of
contributions and new employees would have 90 days from the date of
employment to opt up to the higher coverage.
CHAIRMAN BUNDE said, "And the purpose of the option, I'm just
guessing, would be people who view that profession as temporary
versus those that might view that work as a career."
MR. CHURCH replied certainly those individuals who elect the option
will view it as being more favorable to them. He explained,
"Someone just starting off, they can look at it and say 'I can work
30 years and retire' whatever age that may be. If someone's right
out of high school, 30 years might put them at 48 years old with
the ability to retire at that point in time as opposed to
currently, the tiers for normal retirement age, not service based,
is age 60, so to them certainly that would be a clear advantage."
Number 0512
REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN noted the department had a fiscal note of
$116,000 for updating computers. He asked if the division would be
getting a system that would allow this to happen and would the
division derive other benefits from updating their system.
MR. CHURCH said the division is currently running two different
systems; the existing system and a new system that's coming on
line. He explained the new system would not be on line in time, so
the division would only have to update one system. He said the
division would have to create the ability of the system to be able
to recognize a different group of employees, to be able to credit
their service properly and be able to apply the right contribution
value that comes in. Based on all these changes, it has to be for
both systems and the fiscal note reflects the costs estimated by
the data processing staff.
Number 0600
CHAIRMAN BUNDE verified that funds to upgrade the computer system
wouldn't come out of the general fund, but instead out of the
earnings of the retirement system.
MR. BELL confirmed the funding source is the public employees'
retirement account.
CHAIRMAN BUNDE asked if there were further questions for the
division? Hearing none, he asked Mr. Cyr to come before the
committee to present his remarks.
Number 0635
JOHN CYR, President, NEA-Alaska, testified in support of CSHB 323.
He said the classified employees in the 53 or 54 school districts
across the state represented by NEA-Alaska have worked long and
hard and view this as an equity issue. He said NEA-Alaska has
looked at a number of different ways to help provide a type of
retirement system that would secure benefits for them at the end of
their career. He explained that many of the employees have been
put in the position of having had at one point year-round jobs and
their jobs have been cut back and scaled back as the district's
ability to provide that resource lessened. He stated this is of
critical importance to the employees represented by NEA-Alaska and
in his opinion, the language in the proposed committee substitute
is fair by placing the burden on those employees who opt into it to
pay for that added benefit. He urged the committee to pass the
proposed committee substitute from committee.
Number 0740
CHAIRMAN BUNDE closed public testimony and asked the wishes of the
committee.
Number 0750
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON made a motion to move HB 323, version 0-
LS1350\F, Cramer, 4/2998, with individual recommendations from
committee. There being no objection, CSHB 323(HES) passed out of
the House Health, Education and Social Services Standing Committee.
CHAIRMAN BUNDE noted that even though CSHB 323(HES) had passed from
committee, Mary Biss wished to present her remarks from Anchorage
on HB 323.
Number 0769
MARY BISE, President, Totem Association of Educational Support
Personnel, testified via teleconference from Anchorage, and urged
the committee to vote for equality in the state law and the PERS
retirement system for noncertificated school district personnel.
She said this bill will reinstate the equity enjoyed by these
employees prior to July 1, 1976 when they did receive a full year
credit. She said these employees should receive the same one year
of retirement benefits for one year of work as do the teachers.
Number 0840
BARBARA TUCK HUFFNESS, Director, Governmental and Legislative
Affairs, Teamsters Local 959, testified via teleconference from
Anchorage. She said the Teamsters Local 959 represents the
Anchorage School District's approximately 400 noncertificated
employees, who strongly support this legislation.
HB 332 - ADOPTION PREFERENCE FOR RELATIVES
Number 0860
CHAIRMAN BUNDE indicated the committee would hear HB 332, "An Act
relating to adoptive placements by the Department of Health and
Social Services," sponsored by Representative James.
Number 0890
PATRICK LOUNSBURY, Legislative Secretary to Representative
Jeannette James, came before the committee to explain the
legislation. He stated HB 332 is a concept that seems to make good
sense. It simply allows that a blood relative could be first in
line to adopt a child that is in the state's care for placement.
Mr. Lounsbury pointed out that it is consistent with the national
trend regarding open adoption procedures and it was actually
inspired by the Indian Child Welfare Act (ICWA) of 1978. He stated
the legislation has also been used as model legislation in other
countries around the world. Mr. Lounsbury stated, "In all cases
that I've come across, it's been a mid to upper 90 percent rate of
successful placement rates." He said just knowing where you come
from and who you are can give you a great piece of mind and it's a
piece of mind that a lot of us take for granted." He said the
confidentiality and closed adoption procedures that exist have
prevented many people from knowing this very basic information.
Even genetic information such as heart disease, cancer, diabetes,
et cetera has been restricted. Some of the adoption procedures
have been arbitrary and capricious. He informed the committee of
an instance in Montreal, Canada, where infants were placed
according to their religious affiliation. Open adoption has proven
fruitful for both the biological parents and the children. Mr.
Lounsbury stated he believes that Alaska needs to keep moving
forward in this arena. He noted there currently is a provision for
kinship placement in foster cases; this legislation would allow for
permanent placement.
CHAIRMAN BUNDE asked if the legislation would memorialize in
statute what is pretty much a common practice.
Number 1030
MR. LOUNSBURY responded that it is a national trend.
Number 1061
KATHY TIBBLES, Administrator, Social Services Program, Division of
Family and Youth Services, Department of Health & Social Services,
came before the committee. She explained that the current practice
is placement with relatives whenever there is a viable relative
available and willing to take a child. She said the division
believes HB 332 is a good bill and the right thing to do.
Number 1072
CHAIRMAN BUNDE indicated there were no further witnesses to testify
and closed the public hearing.
Number 1080
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON made a motion to move HB 332 out of committee.
There being no objection, HB 332 moved out of the House Health,
Education and Social Services Standing Committee.
SSHB 340 - TESTIMONY AT CINA HEARINGS; CHILD ABUSE
Number 1085
CHAIRMAN BUNDE announced the next item on the agenda was HB 340,
"An Act relating to child abuse and neglect, child-in-need-of-aid
proceedings, delinquency hearings, and review of cases involving
certain children who are in the custody of the state; relating to
the crime of endangering the welfare of a minor; relating to
disclosure of information about children and their families;
amending Rules 3, 7, 10, 15, 17 - 19, and 22, Alaska Child in Need
of Aid Rules; amending Rules 3, 7, 10, 12, 21, 23, and 25, Alaska
Delinquency Rules; and providing for an effective date." Gary
Cadd, Researcher for Representative Mark Hodgins, Sponsor, came
before the committee to explain SSHB 340.
Number 1128
GARY CADD, Researcher for Representative Mark Hodgins, Alaska State
Legislature, said HB 340 implements an enforceable penalty for
false reporting of child abuse or neglect and endangering the
welfare of a child with respect to intoxicating liquor or a
controlled substance, gives notice to the child's grandparents,
child's current and previous foster parents and the child's health
care providers of all hearings and an opportunity to be heard at
all hearings for a child in need of aid. This legislation also
gives a foster parent or grandparent the right to disclose
confidential or privileged information about a child in need of aid
to a government official or their employee. The court cannot find
a child in need of aid solely on the basis that the child's family
is poor, lacks adequate housing or lives a lifestyle that is
different from the generally accepted lifestyle of the community.
Number 1188
CHAIRMAN BUNDE asked at what point does endangering the welfare of
a child with respect to intoxicating liquor or a controlled
substance become a factor. For example, would providing drugs to
a 14-year-old child be endangering the welfare of a child?
MR. CADD said the legislation relates to the person in charge of
the child.
CHAIRMAN BUNDE understood that; however, if a child is born with
alcohol in its bloodstream, is the parent then guilty of
endangering the welfare of the child.
Number 1231
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON said in his opinion, the parent is absolutely
endangering the welfare of the child, but he didn't think that was
covered under law.
CHAIRMAN BUNDE said it is for controlled substances, but not
alcohol. He said for the record, giving a child intoxicating
liquor after it is a viable human being, born or present on this
earth is considered endangering the welfare of a child. He stated,
"I think I've heard from you say that yes, at any time you've given
a child intoxicating liquor, you are endangering the welfare of a
child."
MR. CADD replied, "Yes sir, you would be."
Number 1276
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER asked in which section of the bill is that
stated?
MR. CADD responded Section 1, page 2, line 2, "with criminal
negligence, has the child in the person's care and the person's
physical or mental condition is impaired as a result of the
introduction of an intoxicating liquor or a controlled substance
into the person's body;".
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER commented that's not quite the same; that
language indicates it's a crime if the person in charge of the
child is impaired by drugs or alcohol. The question was is it a
crime if the mother drinks and then imparts that alcohol to her
newly born child.
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON interjected that his comment may have caused
the confusion in that Chairman Bunde had asked the question is that
harming the child and Representative Dyson had responded absolutely
it's harm to the child; however, he did not believe there is
anything in the law or in this legislation that makes it a criminal
act.
CHAIRMAN BUNDE conceded he had misread the sponsor statement and
had jumped to conclusions. He noted there were individuals wishing
to testify via teleconference and asked Diana Buffington to present
her comments at this time.
Number 1382
DIANA BUFFINGTON, President, Childrens' Rights Council of Alaska,
testified via teleconference from Kodiak in support of SSHB 340.
She advised the committee that a lot of mothers give their children
little bits of alcohol to help through the teething process. She
said according to the Executive Director of the Child Welfare
League of America, 62 percent of allegations of abuse and neglect
are false allegations and for that reason she believes it's
important this legislation be passed. She noted that according to
the Director of the Division of Family & Youth Services, there are
no false allegations, which she certainly takes issue with. A
number of false allegations are made specifically during custody
and domestic violence situations where women have been enticed to
make those types of allegations in order to gain control and seek
sole custody of their children. She advised there are protocols in
practice across the United States which the agency could put into
place and by simply questioning the person reporting the abuse and
neglect, the division could easily determine if it's a false
allegation or an allegation that needs further investigation. She
said false allegations lead to other investigations, the
uninvestigation or simply having children slip through the cracks
because the agency is unable to attend to all allegations. She
remarked that for far too long the agency has treated foster
parents as child care providers or babysitters and should recognize
that foster parents are actively involved or have been involved in
a child's life and it's important their testimony concerning that
child be brought out in a hearing.
CHAIRMAN BUNDE thanked Ms. Buffington for her comments and asked
Jeanine Reep to come before the committee.
CHAIRMAN BUNDE stated there are a number of people that are
required by law to report suspected child abuse and wondered if
anything in this legislation would have a dampening effect on that
requirement.
Number 1545
JEANINE REEP, Assistant Attorney General, Human Services Section,
Civil Division, Department of Law, responded there's a high
likelihood this legislation could have a dampening effect on all
reports of harm. It's been her experience over the past 10 years
that people already are hesitant to make reports of harm, often
thinking they don't have enough facts. She indicated there are a
number reports of harm that turn out to be unsubstantiated and she
suspected that social workers had a protocol for screening reports
of harm to determine the gravity, the urgency and the basis for the
report. There are situations, usually in divorce cases, of parents
frequently calling in reports which are investigated to the degree
needed. It's pretty clear if there are a number of unsubstantiated
reports, the case isn't going too far with the Division of Family
& Youth Services. She said simply making a report really doesn't
benefit anyone if there's no harm.
Number 1607
CHAIRMAN BUNDE asked if there was a semantic problem in that
according to Ms. Buffington the division says there are no false
reports in Alaska, yet Ms. Reep said there are a number of
unsubstantiated reports. He asked "Would it be easier if we got
some common agreement on a definition here and on a unsubstantiated
report is still a report but it's if you want to look at it from
their side, it's false because it didn't indicate any harm."
MS. REEP agreed that it is an issue of semantics, but it's not a
false report. She thought there may be a small percentage of
totally false reports, but that more often if a report is
unsubstantiated, it is not necessarily a false report. She noted
there's a legal problem in determining what's false in that someone
could have a concern with hearing a constant screaming child
upstairs and often calls in a report of harm, which should be done.
It could be the child is very difficult to manage and the parent is
acting appropriately; it's not a child in need of aid, but neither
is it a false report.
Number 1666
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON said he believed it was the sponsor's
intention to deal only with the knowingly, spurious and for an evil
purpose situations, most of which he thought arise out of spite;
e.g., custody cases. He said whatever the percentage, the
department has to screen through these reports and in his opinion
they do a pretty good job. However, there are laws against
tripping a fire alarm and knowingly calling the fire department
just because a person enjoys seeing the fire engine. It takes a
lot of resources to respond to the report, just as it takes DFYS
resources to respond to all the reports of harm. Again, it is his
belief the sponsor is after individuals who knowingly make a false
report for another purpose besides the child. He did, however,
think these cases would be very difficult to prosecute.
MS. REEP agreed these cases would be difficult to prosecute.
Number 1731
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER views this as a deterrent to the second
knowingly false report. He said it's a very high standard to meet
in "knowing I know that what I'm saying is false" - it's a state of
mind and it's difficult, but it is not difficult the second time
the person makes the same report - once the individual has been
advised not to do it again, there's almost prima facie evidence and
the individual is guilty of making a false report. So, to the
extent it does require "knowingly" he didn't see it anywhere close
to having a "chilling effect" on reports of harm.
MS. REEP, in response to Representative Dyson's question regarding
the difficulty of prosecuting these cases, said it would be
difficult to prosecute anytime there's gray areas. There are many
reports that may not be unsubstantiated - there's an in between
where the department isn't really sure. For example, a mother may
think her child has been sexually abused and even though there
isn't any evidence of it, the mother may genuinely feel that and
should not be criminally punished with a Class C felony if she's
mistaken. She also believed a great deal of manpower would have to
be expended to prosecute these cases.
Number 1840
CHAIRMAN BUNDE observed there were numerous, as well as substantial
fiscal notes.
MR. CADD said the Criminal Division had submitted a $235,000 fiscal
note and he questioned if there weren't going to be any or many of
these cases, why the $235,000 fiscal note. Secondly, when a case
comes forward, it will be different than a mother thinking her
daughter has been sexually abused; this is a knowing situation, as
Representative Porter had indicated, where someone maliciously
causes a problem. He believed that when something like this comes
forward, it's going to be easily recognizable; something that can
be prosecuted because there won't be a gray area, and if there is
a gray area, perhaps it's not a "knowingly" situation.
Number 1877
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON commented that a nontrue accusation also
causes the victim of the accusation to have to expend time and
resources. The citizens suffer a bit - sometimes quite a bit -
from the false accusations and he agrees with the sponsor's
statement that "if the papers report once or twice a year that
somebody got publicly hung up by their thumbs for trying to jerk
people around with false accusations, I think that will have a
chilling effect on some of the spurious ones." It's an absolute
judgment call.
Number 1921
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE observed this would still allow for anonymous
reporting; if anyone was going to "knowingly" give a false report,
it would obviously be done anonymously.
MS. REEP responded that was certainly a possibility.
Number 1935
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE presented a hypothetical situation: A divorce
case and the noncustodial parent has some serious concerns about
the custodial parent - there are stories coming from the child, but
not enough information to substantiate any of the stories. If the
noncustodial parent makes a report, it could definitely look very
spurious but someone with a true concern for the child may get hung
up with this law. He said there needs to be some middle ground so
a parent with honest concerns can have them addressed.
MR. CADD said in the process of putting this section of the bill
together, he had talked with law enforcement personnel and citizens
in the Kenai in which a situation was brought up of two neighbors
with a common driveway who had a right-of-way problem. One of the
neighbors was continually turning the other neighbor in for child
abuse which of course was causing problems for the department who
was having to check out the reports. He explained it was these
types of situations the legislation was aimed at; Representative
Hodgins is not looking at creating a new class of criminal.
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER noted the fiscal note prepared by the
Department of Law, Criminal Division indicates this particular area
is too speculative to even assign any associated cost; the large
fiscal note deals with the other felony - intoxication.
MS. REEP advised she works in the human services division and
handles children in need of aid cases; not criminal cases so she is
not the person to address the criminal issues involved with this
legislation.
CHAIRMAN BUNDE asked if there were additional individuals to
testify. There being none, Chairman Bunde closed public testimony.
Representative Dyson said he had an additional question for the
sponsor's representative.
Number 2055
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON referred to page 7, line 25, and asked why the
sponsor chose to use "may" instead of "shall disclose information
regarding a case...."
MR. CADD said to be quite truthful, he thought "shall" had been in
the original draft which was the sponsor's intent, but in the
rewrite it got changed to "may".
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON commented that in working with the Department
of Law on HB 375, he prevailed in having it read "shall"; however,
the department was concerned with being forced to give information
to people who didn't want it, so the phrase "as appropriate" was
added. He suggested amending the language in SSHB 340 to read, "A
state or municipal agency or employee shall disclose appropriate
information regarding a case ...."
CHAIRMAN BUNDE asked if Representative Dyson wanted to propose that
amendment.
Number 2115
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON made a motion following "employee" delete
"may", insert "shall" and following "disclose" insert
"appropriate".
CHAIRMAN BUNDE asked if there was any objection to the amendment.
Hearing none, the amendment was adopted.
Number 2155
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER inquired if there were provisions in SSHB 340
that had been passed in other bills.
CHAIRMAN BUNDE responded, "lifestyle and ...."
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER thought the issue of intoxicated parents,
guardians and babysitters had also been addressed.
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON said that was in HB 375.
Number 2172
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER remarked that perhaps if there were
provisions in SSHB 340 that were not already included in other
legislative bills, this bill would have a better chance if those
provisions were extracted.
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON advised that Representative Hodgins and his
staff had incorporated four of Representative Dyson's bills into
SSHB 340, just as HB 375 includes provisions of other bills, and he
hasn't pulled those bills just in case HB 375 goes astray during
the legislative process. He suspected Representative Hodgins had
that same strategy in mind with SSHB 340.
CHAIRMAN BUNDE once again closed public testimony and asked the
wishes of the committee.
Number 2227
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON made a motion to pass SSHB 340 as amended from
committee. There being no objection, CSSSHB 340(HES) moved from
the House Health, Education and Social Services Standing Committee.
ADJOURNMENT
Number 2247
CHAIRMAN BUNDE adjourned the House Health, Education and Social
Services Standing Committee at 3:44 p.m.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|